[Psi]

I got into an argument with a guy from a local tourny

Player A summons Snipe Hunter
Player A passes priority
Player B activates Bottomless Traphole on the summon

Can Player A then activate Snipe Hunter's effect in response to BTH? (targeting another monster)

[Celtic Swordsman]

I got into an argument with a guy from a local tourny

Player A summons Snipe Hunter
Player A passes priority
Player B activates Bottomless Traphole on the summon

Can Player A then activate Snipe Hunter's effect in response to BTH? (targeting another monster)[/b]

if they pass priority then they're outta luck, snipe hunter will get removed from play and be unable to use its effect. remember snipe is an ignition effect so it cannot chain to anything.

[Psi]

That's exactly what I told him. He was telling me the rule changed in October of last year

[Unknown Survivor]

hmm..is there a link to any of this information that's official?

[Celtic Swordsman]

check the latest rule book for the basics on priority, however there is no official guide to how the process all works other than that. this guide is accurate though and something i reference quite often.

[Einstein]

wow so much wrong with this. alright first of all both kisetai and bowgania have the same timing as in they're mandatory and begin in the standby phase. this means are fun segoc chains. so first the turn player's effect goes on the chain and then the non turn player's. so it goes bowgania then kisetai onto the chain. now it resolves backward kisetai and bowgania so you get healed and then take the damage.[/b]

SEGOC only occurs when the specific timing for two events is the same. Being in the same Standby Phase does not qualify as simultaneous. Since a Spell Speed 1 effect such as an Ignition Effect can only be chained to another Spell Speed 1 effect when SEGOC occurs, they do not chain to each other.

Simultaneous means specifically at the same time. "Standby Phase" is too vague and large of a term to be simultaneous.

Unknown Survivor - This article is mostly unofficial, as the article title indicates. This is, aside from some mostly minor things that I need to get around to updating, just a general indication of what the judging community views. I can't give you anything stated by UDE, but I can basically guarantee you that priority will be treated this way in a tournament setting.

[NLichtman]

wow so much wrong with this. alright first of all both kisetai and bowgania have the same timing as in they're mandatory and begin in the standby phase. this means are fun segoc chains. so first the turn player's effect goes on the chain and then the non turn player's. so it goes bowgania then kisetai onto the chain. now it resolves backward kisetai and bowgania so you get healed and then take the damage.[/b]

If that is the case, can Player A wait to place their effect on the chain second.

Also, say I have "Skill Drain" face-down and my opponent summons "Demise, King of Armageddon". They claim priority. Can I activate "Skill Drain" in response, to stop "Demise, King of Armageddon"'s effect?

[Celtic Swordsman]

i was overruled by ein in the first question and it appears that the turn player can simply decide which effects resolve first since they can be used at any time during the phase.

yes you can chain skill drain and it will be active to stop demise's effect.

[Einstein]

It's a little more nuanced than that, Celtic.

Since "Kisetai" and "Bowganian" are mandatory effects, they must obviously both resolve in the Standby Phase or else the game cannot go on.

During the Standby Phase, Player A receives Turn Priority and can choose to either use it or not. If Player A passes priority, Player B is then given that option. If Player B also declines, priority is returned to Player A and he/she is forced to activate the effect of "Kisetai". Normally when priority is passed sequentially like that, the phase ends. However, the phase cannot end because there are unresolved mandatory effects. This is why this happens.

This means that essentially, unless Player B decides to go first once Player A passes, Player A's effect will active first/resolve last.

[Celtic Swordsman]

It's a little more nuanced than that, Celtic.

Since "Kisetai" and "Bowganian" are mandatory effects, they must obviously both resolve in the Standby Phase or else the game cannot go on.

During the Standby Phase, Player A receives Turn Priority and can choose to either use it or not. If Player A passes priority, Player B is then given that option. If Player B also declines, priority is returned to Player A and he/she is forced to activate the effect of "Kisetai". Normally when priority is passed sequentially like that, the phase ends. However, the phase cannot end because there are unresolved mandatory effects. This is why this happens.

This means that essentially, unless Player B decides to go first once Player A passes, Player A's effect will active first/resolve last.[/b]

ah i see, i must admit im quite rusty with the whole priority thing. guess ill just reread the article for a refresher course.

[bgarrett11]

Okay, this happened to me in a tourney, that I still won, but nontheless want to know the correct ruling. My opp. Special Summons Demise and calls priority. Any opp. is allowed to do this right? Pay his/her 2000LP to activate it's effect. I try and chain Bottomless Trap Hole to the effect, and a JUDGE at this local tourney says I can't do it, because it's too late in the summon, or some crap.

My next question is this: Monster effects that say you "can" do whatever effect, if it's Normal Summoned, my the opp. chooses to activate the effect when it is summoned (for ex. Elemental Hero Stratos) and they call priority can I use Pulling the Rug? I did that and I was told that Stratos could be "Pulled" if I called priority.

[Kaalia]

Okay, this happened to me in a tourney, that I still won, but nontheless want to know the correct ruling. My opp. Special Summons Demise and calls priority. Any opp. is allowed to do this right? Pay his/her 2000LP to activate it's effect. I try and chain Bottomless Trap Hole to the effect, and a JUDGE at this local tourney says I can't do it, because it's too late in the summon, or some crap.

Your opponent is allowed to call priority to use Demises effect before you can chain.

My next question is this: Monster effects that say you "can" do whatever effect, if it's Normal Summoned, my the opp. chooses to activate the effect when it is summoned (for ex. Elemental Hero Stratos) and they call priority can I use Pulling the Rug? I did that and I was told that Stratos could be "Pulled" if I called priority.

Priority and stratos are unrelated. He summons Stratos and you chain pulling. That's it.[/b]

[JiB]

Okay, this happened to me in a tourney, that I still won, but nontheless want to know the correct ruling. My opp. Special Summons Demise and calls priority. Any opp. is allowed to do this right? Pay his/her 2000LP to activate it's effect. I try and chain Bottomless Trap Hole to the effect, and a JUDGE at this local tourney says I can't do it, because it's too late in the summon, or some crap.

My next question is this: Monster effects that say you "can" do whatever effect, if it's Normal Summoned, my the opp. chooses to activate the effect when it is summoned (for ex. Elemental Hero Stratos) and they call priority can I use Pulling the Rug? I did that and I was told that Stratos could be "Pulled" if I called priority.[/b]

bottomless removes demise, then his effect goes off. Its just like with anything w/ priority.
3) Player A Normal Summons "Mobius the Frost Monarch". If Player A chooses to use the effect of "Mobius the Frost Monarch", it is placed in Chain Link 1. Player B can then chain to this effect, with a card such as "Bottomless Trap Hole", but since the effect has already been activated, even if "Mobius the Frost Monarch" is removed from the game, its effect will still resolve, destroying the targeted Spell/Trap Cards.
even though demise kills everything, he is removed prior to this. thus eliminating the threat of demise.

Stratos can be pullinged, his effect is automatically activated at his summoning, and you cannot activate it during any other instance, like monsters that get priority. In a way, stratos does get priority, but its not "the same thing". However, his effect is negated w/ pulling the rug. Other monsters u can do this to, are breaker, the monarchs, v. rocket, etc.

[Nomad]

so if i summon exiled force and my opponent activates trap hole, i cant call priority to use exiled effect? right?[/b]

You would need to declare your priority as soon as you summon your Exiled. If they still wanted to use their Trap Hole, it`s their choice.

[Celtic Swordsman]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

so if i summon exiled force and my opponent activates trap hole, i cant call priority to use exiled effect? right?[/b]

You would need to declare your priority as soon as you summon your Exiled. If they still wanted to use their Trap Hole, it`s their choice.
[/b]

Actually since Trap Hole targets, it would be illegal for them to activate it if Exiled uses its effect with priority.

Plus further more, to the original quote, you, as the turn player, have the right to declare your priority so you can have your opponent backtrack if they jump the gun.

[Nomad]

Right, I'm thinking Bottomless Trap Hole... Which still couldn't touch Exiled to begin with. Something else that's been bugging me is this. Lets say I summon Exiled Force, declare my priority to tribute him to destroy my opponent's Kycoo. Once that's occorred, my normal summon is no longer the last thing to happen. How would my opponent be able to activate Torrential Tribute? "You can only activate this card when a monster is Normal Summoned, Flip Summoned or Special Summoned. Destroy all monsters on the field." It's almost like if I special summon Sangan with Premature Burial, then my opponent activates Nightmare Wheel after Premature has resolved. It would be too late for me to activate Torrential Tribute because in order to meet it's activation timing.

[Celtic Swordsman]

Right, I'm thinking Bottomless Trap Hole... Which still couldn't touch Exiled to begin with. Something else that's been bugging me is this. Lets say I summon Exiled Force, declare my priority to tribute him to destroy my opponent's Kycoo. Once that's occorred, my normal summon is no longer the last thing to happen. How would my opponent be able to activate Torrential Tribute? "You can only activate this card when a monster is Normal Summoned, Flip Summoned or Special Summoned. Destroy all monsters on the field." It's almost like if I special summon Sangan with Premature Burial, then my opponent activates Nightmare Wheel after Premature has resolved. It would be too late for me to activate Torrential Tribute because in order to meet it's activation timing.[/b]

Well it's simple because another effect has yet to resolve, so the last thing to happen is still the summoning of a monster. Here's how it would work:

Player A: Summons Exiled (response to summon window is open) and declares priority to tribute it as the cost for its own effect.
Player B: Chains their Torrential Tribute
Neither player chains any more cards (response to summon window is closed)

Resolves:
B: Nuke field
A: Fizzles unless you targeted something like wildheart that would survive TT

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Again with your Sangan example I'll go through the motions:

Player A: Uses Premature Burial targeting Sangan
Player B: No response

Resolves:
A: Sangan is summoned to the field (response to summon window is open)

Player B: Responds with Nightmare Wheel
Player A: Chains with Torrential Tribute
Neither player chains any more cards (response to summon window is closed)

Resolves:
A: Nukes field
B: Fizzles

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Just remember that summons do not use the chain so cards like BTH and TT can be used at any point in the chain that occurs in responses to the summon. No effects have resolved yet so even if the opponent responds with Nightmare Wheel, it hasn't resolved yet so the last event to occur is still the summon. Now if you let Wheel resolve then that becomes the last event to occur and the window and your chance to use TT closes.

[Nomad]

Thankyou for explaining that so well. It was one of those things that I knew how to use, but not how to explain or justify properly.

[Einstein]

Right. When you start thinking of everything as a "thing" it gets dangerous. The only things that are actually "things" are gameplay actions like Summoning, attacking, drawing a card, etc.

[Laughing Man]

when i summon kuraz and have 2 facedown good goblin house keepings can i call priority to activate them before kuraz targets them