13 replies to this topic

[Iceman]

If I equip my face-up Gigaplant with Supervise and my opponent chains MST on my Supervise when I attempt to use Gigaplant's effect to revive my Copy Plant:
1) Do I still get to Special Summon Copy Plant?
2) Can I equip another Supervise to reuse Gigaplant's effect during the same turn?

[Anonymoose]

1) If your opponent chains Mystical Space Typhoon to the ACTIVATION of Supervise, then it technically has not resolved yet, and you wouldn't be able to activate Gigaplant's effect anyway (unless it was ALREADY an effect monster with its effect).

2) Supposing you activate a second supervise after the first was destroyed, I don't see why you cannot activate the effect of gigaplant, seeing as the first one never resolved and you never activated gigaplant's effect.

But I'm assuming you mean that if the chain resolves, and then your opponent activates Mystical Space Typhoon in RESPONSE to your activation of Gigaplant's effect, whether or not you would

1) Get to summon copy plant: This is rather tricky, but I'm going to say the chain tries to resolve such that, even if the effect monster is no longer an effect monster when the effect resolves, the effect would still resolve. (After all, if the effect would resolve if the monster isn't even on the field, why would it matter if its status as an effect monster has changed after the effect was activated?)

So yes, you would summon copy plant.

2) Get to use gigaplant's effect a second time if it were to be equipped with a second copy of supervise. To that I have this ruling:

Quote

If "Dark Valkyria" is treated as an Effect Monster due to the effect of a card like "Supervise" or "Superalloy Beast Raptinus" and has a Spell Counter, then when "Superalloy Beast Raptinus" is removed from the field, the Spell Counter is removed because "Dark Valkyria" is now treated as a Normal Monster. If "Dark Valkyria" becomes an Effect Monster again afterwards, its effect can be used once more

So if you have a gemini monster become an effect monster, and use its effect, and then change it back into a normal monster, the game state would no longer recognize that the conditions applied to the effect (i.e. once per turn) apply, because changing it to a normal monster and then back into an effect monster seems to reset the effects, much in the same way that the game state no longer recognizes a monster that was continuously targetted (or under some condition effect) by something if it is removed from the field (or the area that the condition effect is applied in)

Edit: So that's also a "yes" to activating the effect a second time if this is the situation.

Edited by Anonymoose, 06 November 2009 - 10:47 AM.

[Fox-fire]

1) If MST is chained to Gigaplant's effect to destroy Supervise (and Supervise is the only reason Gigaplant has its effect [ie, it hasn't been re-summoned]), I would say that Copy Plant would not be summoned, because Gigaplant is now a normal monster.

Superally Beast Raptinus rulings said:

• When "Chthonian Emperor Dragon" declares its second attack during the Battle Phase while "Superalloy Beast Raptinus" is face-up on the field, if "Superalloy Beast Raptinus" is removed from the field or flipped face-down "Chthonian Emperor Dragon" will be treated as a Normal Monster and its attack will stop because it no longer has an effect allowing it to attack twice during the Battle Phase.

[Nomad]

For what its worth, I'd agree (mostly) with Anonymoose on both counts (and more importantly, the rulings look to as well).

Supervise OCG Rulings said:

If "Evocator Chevalier" gains its effect by being equipped with "Supervise", then you can activate the effect of "Evocator Chevalier" by sending "Supervise" to the Graveyard. The effect of "Evocator Chevalier" will resolve and will destroy the opponent's card.

1) When a player activates Gigaplant's effect, they've already entered the effect into a chain, and it shouldn't matter what happens to Gigaplant after the fact unless the effect is negated or something like Limit Reverse if activated in a higher chain link by selecting Jowgen, Fossil Dyna, etc.

As far as the Chthonian Emperor Dragon example looking to oppose this, I believe that has to do with his ability to attack twice being provided by a continous effect (thus no longer being present when Supervise or Raptinus goes away), rather than something that activates or more importantly, has already been activated & placed into a chain before Supervise goes away.

2) While the Dark Valkyria ruling answers the specific question asked, I'd like to mention that that the game will continue to see Dark Valkyria (I love her so) as the same monster that she was before. This means that anything targeting or otherwise applying to her will not have its bond broken when she is Gemini Summoned, or otherwise treated as a normal/effect monster as long as she remains face-up on the field. Actually, certain things such as battle memory & ownership won't be lost even when flipped face-down, let alone as a result of a wardrobe change.

Edited by Val, 06 November 2009 - 11:28 AM.

[Iceman]

Interesting, they really need to post this under Gigaplant's official rulings.

[Anonymoose]

Iceman Hotty, on 06 November 2009 - 02:40 PM, said:

Interesting, they really need to post this under Gigaplant's official rulings.

On what, Netrep? ;_;

And yeah, I probably should have gone with a better analogy >>...

[Nomad]

The reason this information isn't under Gigaplant's & every other Gemini Monster's ruling notes is that sources such as Netrep, CCGDB, & the apparently buried Judge Resources only hold was was previously posted on the Konami/UDE faq page & possibly a few sneak rulings. As in, its not something that people are constantly updating/changing as we go along, and thats one of the ways that its kept in for lack of better term, "official condition".

Also, even if we did take it upon ourselves to clutter up wiki pages with an array of "related rulings", we'd still have countless other puzzles to piece together, so it wouldn't really solve the problem. The thing is though, I've always believed that learning to answer our own questions is the best possible answer key to have, since we're building tools, rather than trying to buy an endless amount of finished products.

Edit - It'll get easier once Konami gets the Mega Thunderball rolling a bit more with ruling updates, but I wouldn't expect them to do very much with the older cards, outside of a possible reissue of the Basic Faq. It'll mostly be done through Sneak Rulings (that have contained a LOT of useful information as of late), which is mostly the cards we'll need help with anyway.

Edited by Val, 06 November 2009 - 04:05 PM.

[Anonymoose]

Still, a lot of the old cards would provide useful information.

I remember I used the rulings for "The Law of the Normal" as a precedent for a couple rulings, and "Order to Charge" as a precedent for cards that target and the difference between activation and resolution.

Also, some of the old cards are used today, A LOT. Skill drain, anyone?

If only someone copied down the list of rulings from the geocities website... did anyone do that?

[Nomad]

I'm not saying that old rulings & precedents aren't important, because we use them every day, and tonnes of old rulings are still aiding us. I mean, I reference Cybernetic Magician at least once a week when people claim Gale's effect to be bkss. I just don't expect Konami to go through every card released from the older sets & make clarifications unless enough people harass them to, because the few people working for Konami that are both qualified & capable to do so are tied up with other things & possibly held back for legal reasons as well as simply wanting to "do it right before they do it at all" kind of thing. Even then, our new inquires that can't be answered through already existing rulings & common sense are likely destine for the same proverbial "to ignore pile" that most other questions I have for them did (there's more than you might think), since their e-mail address gets flooded each day by idiots complaining about why Armor Master can't use its effect during the battle phase like it does on the tv show, etc.

As far as the "copying down" the former rulings go, a good number of them are committed to memory & written by reliable people on forums, others ones are on Netrep & ccgdb, newer ones are in the sneak rulings, & Wiki's gotten a lot better with citing the sources. If that's not good enough, then I guess we'll just have to resort to panic attacks when the above sources fails us. Again though, 95% of "rulings" can be arrived upon by keeping up with the game mechanics decently well & doing some homework, even if a yes or no answer isn't directly referenced.

Edit - Getting to Skill Drain, its negation effect isn't really that complicated. Rather, its the monsters involved that cause problems to arise, as Skill Drain's text suffers from what I would consider to be a case of oversimplified wording. When it says "negate the effects of face-up effect monsters", its really meaning to say that it'll negate the effect of effect monsters, if the effect monster is still face-up on the field when its effect resolves or would be applied. Would I like future copies of this card to read that way, would I like a section of "priority clarifications" to be added to the current errata, and would I like a more complete assessment of the rules to be provided without people simply having to believe what they're told? of course. However, it doesn't seem to be Konami's priority right now, so we've gotta roll with it.

Edited by Val, 06 November 2009 - 05:03 PM.

[Anonymoose]

I take it copypasta'ing the stuff from Geocities was too much to ask? >>

[Nomad]

Anonymoose, on 06 November 2009 - 06:51 PM, said:

I take it copypasta'ing the stuff from Geocities was too much to ask? >>

I was going to make a bad time travel joke, but then I remembered about the waybackmachine.

Basic Gameplay - http://web.archive.o...ay/default.aspx
Advanced Gameplay - http://web.archive.o...ay/default.aspx
Individual Card Rulings - http://web.archive.o...ta/default.aspx
What's an "Archfiend"? - http://web.archive.o...nd/default.aspx
Errata and Card Text FAQ - http://web.archive.o...ta/default.aspx

I think are from Feb07 or something, so they'll be incomplete... but yeah. I'll try and see if anybody has a more updated version of this, though.

[Anonymoose]

Thais stuffs online?! Can it be pinned?

[Indignation]

If gigaplant was equipped with supervise, you used its effect and summoned a plant, and then if supervise has gotten removed (mst, trunade etc...) you can equip it again and Summon another plant with gigas effect.

The same can be applied to the Dark Valkyria effect:

Quote

If "Dark Valkyria" is treated as an Effect Monster due to the effect of a card like "Supervise" or "Superalloy Beast Raptinus" and has a Spell Counter, then when "Superalloy Beast Raptinus" is removed from the field, the Spell Counter is removed because "Dark Valkyria" is now treated as a Normal Monster. If "Dark Valkyria" becomes an Effect Monster again afterwards, its effect can be used once more.

[Nomad]

Anonymoose, on 06 November 2009 - 08:26 PM, said:

Thais stuffs online?! Can it be pinned?

Well, it's not so much "online" as it is accessable by bending the internet's temporal mechanics.

As far as pinning it, I'm gonna talk to Coin tomorrow and see if he'd like to condense some of our pinned topics by making a 1 main Rules + Helpful Links topic instead, and just link the Priority, RFG, & Battle Phase topics from that.

I just think doing that would be simpler to access & draw more attention to the active questions that pop up, couse then we'd only have a couple of pinned topics instead of like 9. But yeah, its not my call to make.