[Motep-Dragon]

Player 1: Has Waboku face-down and Goyo Guardian in face-up attack.
Player 2: Has Wulf in face-up attack.

Player 1: Attacks Wulf with Goyo.
Player 2: Discards Honest to raise Wulf.

Can Player 1 activate his Waboku to save his Goyo from being destroyed by battle?

Thanks in advance!

[Unknown Survivor]

By the time Honest can be activated, Waboku cannot be activated because it's already reached the damage step.


However, both players should make sure that the game has reached the damage step...or you'll get back and forth arguments >.>

[Motep-Dragon]

Awesome, thanks! :]

[Khaki Coat]

As I recall, any trap cards that don't alter the attack / defense point of a monster or trap cards that don't specify that they can be activated during the damage step can't be activated during the damage step. In your case, waboku can't be activated as waboku doesn't alter the attack / defense point of a monster nor it specifies that it can be activated during the damage step

[Sheik_the_Geek]

This isnt even a vs case really...more like people rushing through phases and steps again. Im sure Val will explain it better than me.

[Tsunayoshi]

Sheik_the_Geek, on 10 January 2010 - 11:26 PM, said:

This isnt even a vs case really...more like people rushing through phases and steps again. Im sure Val will explain it better than me.

Doesnt he always?

But really, Honest and Waboku activate at different times so this isnt a versus case. Waboku can be activated anytime that isnt the Damage Step, though why you would use it after I dont know. Honest's atk boost activates at two different times in the Damage Step where Waboku's effect would already have to be active to really have an effect on the field.

[Unknown Survivor]

Sora Kitano, on 10 January 2010 - 11:47 PM, said:

Doesnt he always?

But really, Honest and Waboku activate at different times so this isnt a versus case. Waboku can be activated anytime that isnt the Damage Step, though why you would use it after I dont know. Honest's atk boost activates at two different times in the Damage Step where Waboku's effect would already have to be active to really have an effect on the field.

What? Honest does not activate two different times in the Damage Step.

This post has been edited by Unknown Survivor: 11 January 2010 - 12:28 AM

[Tsunayoshi]

Unknown Survivor, on 11 January 2010 - 12:12 AM, said:

What? Honest does not two different times in the Damage Step.

The sub steps if I am not mistaken, but then again Val can explain that as well.

[Unknown Survivor]

Sora Kitano, on 11 January 2010 - 12:25 AM, said:

The sub steps if I am not mistaken, but then again Val can explain that as well.

;/ You are. There are seven substeps, not 2.


Honest is one of the few unique cards that can activate any time during the damage step, from substep 1 to substep 4.
In fact, I'm pretty sure you can burn it from substep 5 to substep 7 also, but no one would do that.

This post has been edited by Unknown Survivor: 11 January 2010 - 12:28 AM

[Tsunayoshi]

Unknown Survivor, on 11 January 2010 - 12:28 AM, said:

;/ You are. There are seven substeps, not 2.


Honest is one of the few unique cards that can activate any time during the damage step, from substep 1 to substep 4.
In fact, I'm pretty sure you can burn it from substep 5 to substep 7 also, but no one would do that.

Most people use it in SS1 to draw out negation then again in SS3-4 for actual effect

inb4DBZjokes

[Tenken]

Sora Kitano, on 11 January 2010 - 12:31 AM, said:

Most people use it in SS1 to draw out negation then again in SS3-4 for actual effect

inb4DBZjokes

Most people just say "priority? Drop Honest." The later the better, so your Honest will always win out. Some cases where it differs/doesn't matter, but yea...

All people can say is, learn to read Honest. It will help.
OR
Just declare an attack. Ask if he will chain/blah blah. If the opponent drops without asking, say he rushed it (You will still have to deal with it next turn of course, unless they drop it to save).

[Tsunayoshi]

Havent really played my Little City deck in a while but usually my Honest drops are last second to make sure nothing gets in the way.

[Nomad]

Unknown Survivor, on 10 January 2010 - 06:46 PM, said:

By the time Honest can be activated, Waboku cannot be activated because it's already reached the damage step.

However, both players should make sure that the game has reached the damage step...or you'll get back and forth arguments >.>

I think you hit it quite well here, since the Honest vs Wabaku issue often has more to do with player communication than anything else. This is why its so important for both players to keep each other on the same page when it comes to things like player priority & game'state movement.

Also, lets remember that even though Konami doesn't want us to refer to the different parts of the Damage Step using the word "sub-step" anymore, the Damage Step is still broken down into 7 chronological windows where different effects activate or are applied in, and that Honest's ATK boosting effect can be activated during any of the first 4 windows. These are referred to as "The Start of the Damage Step", "When Monsters Are Flipped Face-up", "Before Damage Calculation" & "During Damage Calculation". Also, lets remember that unlike the previous windows that can contain multiple chains, players can only conduct one manually started chain "During Damage Calculation".

Its just that since the chances of a player wanting to activate their Honest during the first 2 available windows without chaining to a Grand Mole, Catastor or something in order to get Honest into the graveyard for Kristya, Freed, etc are few & far between, the main priority dances come up when the game'state moves to the "Before Damage Calculation" & "During Damage Calculation" windows. As such, the 1st Honest to be activated During Damage Calculation will get the last laugh, not simply the 1st Honest to be activated in general.

For Example, lets say that I'm the Turn Player whose just moved the game into the Battle Phase. First, I'll pass priority by asking for a response when moving into the Battle Phase in case my opponent wishes to activate something before my attack is declared, such as Threatening Roar or Morphtronic Bind (I'll generally only mention the card name examples if my opponent is unsure of how things work). Then when they pass, I'll declare my attacking monster & attack target, follow up by asking if they'd like to activate anything in response to me doing to, such as Mirror Force or Magic Cylinder if there's nothing like Spellcaster's Circle that I'd like to activate instead of passing. After this window is dealt with, I'll ask if they'd like to activate anything before moving into the Damage Step (such as Book of Moon or Wabaku because its their last chance to do so).

Then when we move into the Damage Step, I'll usually skip the dance involving the first 2 windows if nothing needs to be flipped or nothing like Grand Mole or Catastor is in play, and simply express that I'm passing priority to activate something before moving into Damage Calculation. This is where they'll have their last chance to activate something like Shrink or Forbidden Chalice if they wish to. Once they pass & are willing to move into Damage Calculation, I'll either activate my Honest During Damage Calculation or pass, depending on the situation. At this point, chaining their own Honest to mine will be futile since mine will resolve last, aka assimilating their boost and add it to my own. However if I passed my chance to do so & they claim the 1st link, I'm the one whose out of luck.


Now while players will "usually" wait until Damage Calculation to activate their Honest or Kalut, lets remember that they don't "have" to. As in, there are certain times that players will wanna activate them sooner, most notably if they're expecting it to be negated by something like Divine Wrath or to otherwise give out a false play read about having more than one in their hand. This is because if Honest is negated any time before Damage Calculation, they'll be free to activate another one before moving into Damage Calculation, and or activate another Honest during their single chain During Damage Calculation.

tldr; Communicate with your opponent, or communicate with the fact that you've just lost the game.