13 replies to this topic

[drew]

I'm beginning to notice that many of these "leaked" lists have included dustshoot on their banned lists. As a result, many ban lists I see as a result have started to include this card on their lists. I want to open the discussion of this card here.





Reasons for ban:
unrestricted knowledge of opponents hand

Reasons to stay:
difficult to play correctly
timing must be perfect
must be a monster


please etc, enlighten me as to why this card should be banned. Because quite frankly, I dont see it.

[Tsunayoshi]

inb4sackycard


Seriously, I dont mind it staying around at 1, but goddamn does it suck like a mothergrapeer to get sacked by this with one monster in hand. You already brought up most of what will keep this around.

[Ice King]

Another reason for it to say:

Terrible in mid to late game (if the game progresses that far)

[Negative One]

Timing doesn't have to be perfect.

This card should be banned because it suggests overextension to avoid it. By nature it's good only against good players (after turn 2). Cards that prey on good players, and are dead against only those who do things such as Black Whirlwind Shura Gale should not exist. It takes no skill to use, but it preys on skill. It's bad for the game. It's not the worst of threats, but it's bad.

[Khaki Coat]

I have mixed feeling about this. At one point, this card's effect is quite hard to pull, cos', well, only 1 in each deck and you want to get it out as fast as possible, which in most case, it usually makes an appearance in mid / later game instead. On the other hand, the fact that your hand is exposed to your opponent, how should i say it? it feels like you're facing Pegasus with his Millennium Eyes. If I have to choose, I'll choose for it to go.

@drew: another reason to ban, if your opponent somehow knows that you play this, it might influence your opponent somehow that he / she might tend to overextend (not a really good reason, not all people are affected by this actually)

[Apollo]

The only reason it should come close to banning is because generally, if a good player opens with Dustshoot, he wins the game almost all the time. The knowledge that this card gives isn't measurable, but being able to completely play around your opponent's hand is too good. However, this is still a semi-situational card and it really only reaches "banned" potential if you open with it.

Arguably the best trap in the game right now, but it doesn't deserve a ban

[Motep-Dragon]

This card is not that good. It's great early game, especially right off the bat, but it's bad late game, so it pretty much evens out at good.

Great -> Good <- Bad

Banning this card just isn't necessary at the moment I don't think, but getting it early game is almost, and I'm saying almost, as good as using The Forceful Sentry. And since that was banned for obvious, broken reasons, I don't see why this might not join it in the future.

But of course, the whole late game thing still brings this card down a good amount, and maybe even to a balanced amount.

[Ego]

Unless you're getting this on the first turn, you're really not going to be doing that much damage to the other player.

No reason to ban it at all.

[Mister Mischief]

Hayslip, on 01 February 2010 - 12:57 AM, said:

I'm beginning to notice that many of these "leaked" lists have included dustshoot on their banned lists. As a result, many ban lists I see as a result have started to include this card on their lists. I want to open the discussion of this card here.





Reasons for ban:
unrestricted knowledge of opponents hand

Reasons to stay:
difficult to play correctly - No it isn't....
timing must be perfect - Timing is easy...
must be a monster - So what? I'd play it even if I just got to see their hand...


please etc, enlighten me as to why this card should be banned. Because quite frankly, I dont see it.

[Shadow]

I wouldn't be terribly surprised if it got banned, but then again, we were talking about Storm getting banned in September and it never happened.

[drew]

storm finds its way into the conversation every list.

Edited by Hayslip, 02 February 2010 - 02:02 PM.

[Fallen]

Storm never deserves to be banned and neither does this.

[Mad Hatter]

I'm gonna agree here with Drew on Trap Dustshoot and take the rare stance that it is slightly overrated. Nearly every format since Dustshoot has been made maindeck material, people have always touted its unique disruption and advantage it gives players.
e c
Truthfully however it takes fairly skilled players to capitalize on Dustshoot. Most of the time its only gonna be a live card early in the game or mid game at best. Furthermore based upon how easy I've seen it is for the top tier decks to draw, search and thin out their decks, I hardly find Dustshoot to have the same impact that it once did, at least against top tier decks that is. Heck Blackwings practically signal their plays in broad daylight and LS quite often too.

That being said, I still think Dustshoot is still an incredibly powerful and momentum changing card. It just doesn't deserve however any restrictions now and its impact isn't enough to warrant reasonable ban.

[Mister Mischief]

Da Mad Hatter, on 09 February 2010 - 02:18 AM, said:

I'm gonna agree here with Drew on Trap Dustshoot and take the rare stance that it is slightly overrated. Nearly every format since Dustshoot has been made maindeck material, people have always touted its unique disruption and advantage it gives players.
e c
Truthfully however it takes fairly skilled players to capitalize on Dustshoot. Most of the time its only gonna be a live card early in the game or mid game at best. Furthermore based upon how easy I've seen it is for the top tier decks to draw, search and thin out their decks, I hardly find Dustshoot to have the same impact that it once did, at least against top tier decks that is. Heck Blackwings practically signal their plays in broad daylight and LS quite often too.

That being said, I still think Dustshoot is still an incredibly powerful and momentum changing card. It just doesn't deserve however any restrictions now and its impact isn't enough to warrant reasonable ban.

Very well said, and I'd like to expand upon this by pointing out the top decks really do telegraph, or out right show you, cards that are in their hand through the use of BWW, Goblin Zombie/Sangan, Gold Sarco, RoTA, CoTLB, Beckoning Light, attacking with a weaker monster into your stronger monster(Kalut/Honest/BoM/Trag), checking their grave right after they draw(JD/DAD), and many other times. Also, in decks that abuse Brionac, you often know at least 1 card in their hand.

What am I getting at? Mind Crush. Really? Yea. Given how the top decks play, it should be easy for ANYONE who has a decent working memory and level of intelligence to Mind Crush a card(s) out of their opponent's hand. If you're good enough at reading your opponent, and game situation, to hit non obvious cards, even more reason to use Mind Crush.

Mind Crush is highly effective against BW and LS, but, against Zombies it's far less useful than the other two top decks, and I probably wouldn't side it in, but if you did, at least you can make them discard that card for Mind Crush instead of disacarding it for Brionac, or maybe get lucky and pop a Diva that was searched off of Sangan.

Oh, lots of that is also a reason Rai-Oh should see more play in side decks.

Edited by Mister Mischief, 09 February 2010 - 10:12 AM.