4 replies to this topic

[Lloyd6770]

Snoww - If this card is discarded to the Graveyard by a card effect: If it was discarded from your hand to your Graveyard by an opponent's card effect, you can target 1 monster in your opponent's Graveyard; add 1 "Dark World" card from your Deck to your hand, then Special Summon that target (if any) in face-up Defense Position.

Sillva - If this card is discarded to the Graveyard by a card effect: Special Summon it from the Graveyard, then, if this card was discarded from your hand to your Graveyard by your opponent's card effect, your opponent returns exactly 2 cards from their hand to the bottom of their Deck, in any order.

Dark World Dealings - Each player draws 1 card, then each player discards 1 card.

Situation: Player A plays Dark World Dealings. After each player drawing their card, Player A discards Sillva and Player B discards Snoww. Since Snoww was discarded by an opponents card effect, can Player B target Player A's Sillva and special summon it to their side of the field before Sillva is summoned to Player A's side of the field due to its own effect?

[Vanilla Ice]

Konami's rule about forming chain link should be:

1st: turn player mandatory effect
2nd: opponent mandatory effect
3rd: turn player optional effect
4th: opponent optional effect

Since Snoww's effect of special summoning a monster is optional and Sillva's effect is mandatory (and since the optional effect of Snoww must first take place), then Sillva's effect will be the first to activate when the chain link is performed, thus:

1st: Sillva's effect activates (turn player mandatory)
2nd: Snoww's effect activates, targeting in the grave Sillva (opponent optional)

The chain will then resolve backwards:

2nd: Snoww will special summon Sillva from opponent's graveyard
1st: Sillva's effect will fizzle since he is not in grave anymore

After that you can add a Dark World card via Snoww's effect.

Reference regarding Snoww's effect:
The effects of "Snow, Magician of Dark World" are not treated as resolving simultaneously. If it is discarded by an opponent's card effect, then its effect ends with you optionally Special Summoning a monster. If you choose to not Special Summon a monster, then the last thing to resolve is you adding a "Dark World" monster to your hand, so "Drastic Drop Off" can be activated. Also, if it is not possible for you to Special Summon a monster, then "Drastic Drop Off" can be activated.[3]

(taken from wikia)

[Tenken]

Wakusei, on 07 January 2012 - 06:13 PM, said:

Konami's rule about forming chain link should be:

1st: turn player mandatory effect
2nd: opponent mandatory effect
3rd: turn player optional effect
4th: opponent optional effect

Since Snoww's effect of special summoning a monster is optional and Sillva's effect is mandatory (and since the optional effect of Snoww must first take place), then Sillva's effect will be the first to activate when the chain link is performed, thus:

1st: Sillva's effect activates (turn player mandatory)
2nd: Snoww's effect activates, targeting in the grave Sillva (opponent optional)

The chain will then resolve backwards:

2nd: Snoww will special summon Sillva from opponent's graveyard
1st: Sillva's effect will fizzle since he is not in grave anymore

After that you can add a Dark World card via Snoww's effect.

Reference regarding Snoww's effect:
The effects of "Snow, Magician of Dark World" are not treated as resolving simultaneously. If it is discarded by an opponent's card effect, then its effect ends with you optionally Special Summoning a monster. If you choose to not Special Summon a monster, then the last thing to resolve is you adding a "Dark World" monster to your hand, so "Drastic Drop Off" can be activated. Also, if it is not possible for you to Special Summon a monster, then "Drastic Drop Off" can be activated.[3]

(taken from wikia)

The quoted ruling argueswith your post.

You add a Dark world card before you special summon.

But all the chain link stuff I will assume is right, because it looks so.

[Nomad]

Yeah, the chain link/segoc order stuff definitely makes sense. It's just that since Snoww & Sillva are pretty complex cards in their own right, it makes a normally simple concept into a trickier one, especially on paper when everything is so long winded. This is likely why the man formerly known as Vanilla Ice mixed up the Snoww related stuff.


Moving onto when we actually resolve the chain (starting with chain link 2), it's important not to forget that everything from Snoww's effect comes from a single resolution. It's done in two consecutive parts (as per the card design), but it's all part of the same link. To Tenken's point, the Defending Player will add a card from their deck to their hand, and then they'll special summon their target (Sillva).

After that, Sillva's chain link (finishing with chain link 1) will resolve without effect because Sillva is no longer in the Graveyard, and the Turn Player will essentially be resolving an empty chain link because of it.

[Vanilla Ice]

Tenken, on 08 January 2012 - 02:32 AM, said:

The quoted ruling argueswith your post.

You add a Dark world card before you special summon.

But all the chain link stuff I will assume is right, because it looks so.

Nomad, on 08 January 2012 - 05:52 AM, said:

Yeah, the chain link/segoc order stuff definitely makes sense. It's just that since Snoww & Sillva are pretty complex cards in their own right, it makes a normally simple concept into a trickier one, especially on paper when everything is so long winded. This is likely why the man formerly known as Vanilla Ice mixed up the Snoww related stuff.


Moving onto when we actually resolve the chain (starting with chain link 2), it's important not to forget that everything from Snoww's effect comes from a single resolution. It's done in two consecutive parts (as per the card design), but it's all part of the same link. To Tenken's point, the Defending Player will add a card from their deck to their hand, and then they'll special summon their target (Sillva).

After that, Sillva's chain link (finishing with chain link 1) will resolve without effect because Sillva is no longer in the Graveyard, and the Turn Player will essentially be resolving an empty chain link because of it.

My bad. Just got back from work. Guess I shouldn't try putting things into logic when I just did some massive work.