13 replies to this topic

[Twitter]

If a spell card is negated (by lets say magic jammer or solemn judgment) and vanity's emptiness is up, does the card still count as being sent to the grave because it was negated thus destroying emptiness?

[Nomad]

Its been my understanding that when cards have their activations negated (such as your Magic Jammer example), that they are considered to be lifted off the field & then sent to the Graveyard (or wherever they are to go). Like, it's still seen as trying to destroy something on the field when looking at it during the activation process, but it doesn't actually destroy it until after negating the activation & lifting it off of the field.

...in other words, that the effect of Vanity's Emptiness wouldn't activate afterwards because it wouldn't see a card going from the Field to the Graveyard.

Here's a simple example to back this up.

Quote

[Re: Black Pendant] If this card’s activation is negated, such as with "Magic Jammer" or "Riryoku Field" it does not do damage to your opponent.

Edited by Nomad, 10 January 2012 - 04:51 PM.

[Tyrant]

If a card's activation is negated, it never touches the field.

Edited by Maximum Charles, 11 January 2012 - 10:24 AM.

[Nomad]

It does.

Cards are always placed onto the field during the activation process, and they stay there until the chain resolves. Some of them are designed to remain longer (Field/Continuous/Equip), but they all function the same during the chain building process.

This is why you can add to the chain with cards like MST & target other cards. You can't target the same card you're currently activating because you need to select your target during that card's activation process (when it's not fully on the field yet), but you can target something else because of its activation has already been completed.

It's just that in the event of a card's activation being negated, Magic Jammer for example will remove Black Pendant's chain link, lift Black Pendant off of the field, and then destroy it. That's why its effect to inflict 500 damage when it goes from the Field to the Graveyard won't activate.

[TheSevenSwords]

Not related to the current discussion, but related to Vanity's Emptiness:

If I control a face up Scrap Dragon and a face up Vanity's Emptiness, and my Dragon is destroyed by an opponent's card, will I get to special summon a Scrap Monster from my graveyard?

[Nomad]

TheSevenSwords, on 11 January 2012 - 12:35 PM, said:

Not related to the current discussion, but related to Vanity's Emptiness:

If I control a face up Scrap Dragon and a face up Vanity's Emptiness, and my Dragon is destroyed by an opponent's card, will I get to special summon a Scrap Monster from my graveyard?

Scrap Dragon's effect to special summon a monster is mandatory, so it'll have to activate if there's a legal target regardless. This is important because at the time that you'd have to activate it, you're not allowed to special summon, meaning that you wouldn't be able to activate an optional effect like that of Mystic Tomato.

Now, since the effect of Vanity's Emptiness (the one to destroy itself) is also mandatory, since you control both of them, and since they're both triggered at the same time, you'll be able to choose the activation order.

If you do it like my example below, Vanity's Emptiness will go away first, and then you'll be able to special summon your target because nothing's stopping you from doing so at that time. However, if you choose the opposite order, then you won't special summon anything because you'll resolve Scrap Dragon's effect while still controlling Vanity's Emptiness.

Link 1 - Scrap Dragon
Link 2 - Vanity's Emptiness


... in other words, the answer to your question is either yes or no, depending on how you build the chain. Its the same thing with Reborn Tengu & Vanity's Emptiness, and for the same reasons.

[Tyrant]

Nomad, on 11 January 2012 - 10:30 AM, said:

It does.

Cards are always placed onto the field during the activation process, and they stay there until the chain resolves. Some of them are designed to remain longer (Field/Continuous/Equip), but they all function the same during the chain building process.

This is why you can add to the chain with cards like MST & target other cards. You can't target the same card you're currently activating because you need to select your target during that card's activation process (when it's not fully on the field yet), but you can target something else because of its activation has already been completed.

It's just that in the event of a card's activation being negated, Magic Jammer for example will remove Black Pendant's chain link, lift Black Pendant off of the field, and then destroy it. That's why its effect to inflict 500 damage when it goes from the Field to the Graveyard won't activate.

Well, same thing.

[TheSevenSwords]

Gotcha, thanks

[Nomad]

@ SevenSwords: Not a problem. Also if you care, here's a [link] to Mad Hatter's single discussion topic.


@ Charlie: Well, it's not the same thing, and the MST example (being able to target another card in the chain) shows this probably better than anything else.

If something never touches the field, then it never touches the field. For example, if a summon is attempted & then the summon is negated, the monster never hits the field. However, if a card is activated & then has its activation negated, it will have been on the field during the chain building process, be it for a short time.

Like, I get what you're saying in terms of not having something stay & being kicked in the balls with either form, but mechanically speaking, they're different concepts.

[Ira Aeterna]

Another question related to Vanity's Emptiness.

Say my opponent summons Debris Dragon, and I chain Vanity's emptiness. He then chains MST, targeting my other face down. Would Vanity's Emptiness be destroyed when MST destroys my other s/t, or would it remain since it hadn't resolved yet (and therefor not yet activated the clause about destroying itself)?

[Tyrant]

Ira Aeterna, on 11 January 2012 - 01:38 PM, said:

Another question related to Vanity's Emptiness.

Say my opponent summons Debris Dragon, and I chain Vanity's emptiness. He then chains MST, targeting my other face down. Would Vanity's Emptiness be destroyed when MST destroys my other s/t, or would it remain since it hadn't resolved yet (and therefor not yet activated the clause about destroying itself)?

1 - Debris
2 - Vanity's
3 - MST targetting F/d

Emptiness remains on the field because it hasn't yet resolved. MST resolves first, popping your backrow, then Emptiness resolves, negating Debris' effect.

[Ira Aeterna]

That was what I thought, but I just wanted to make sure there wasn't some sort of special rule regarding that condition or it hadn't been BKSS'd or something.

[Nomad]

That's been my understanding as well (and I just found a post on the Facebook page where Robert Wakeland agrees), so I think that's what we should go with. If we ever get an official answer, I'll make it known because I've been waiting for one ever since the card was released. Or if anyone else finds out, then hopefully they'll make it public enough.

Plus, what Robert & Charlie are saying makes sense (card might be on the field, but its not applying any effects yet), so yeah.

[Twitter]

thanks for all the info val and charlie