69 replies to this topic

[Nomad]

So as you've probably just seen, there've been a few changes made to our Yu-Gi-Oh section layout, the first of which being an introduction to the Gameplay & Theory section. Up until now, topics of this nature had to be scattered about our forum, most commonly in our general discussion. This was alright, but it didn't really give our competitive mentality a place to shine, as many of them would be lost down the page without even being seen. This is going to change sooner than later, so we invite everyone to take part.

Next, you'll notice that we've opted for a Deck Discussion section over the traditionally used deck garage forum. While this'll undoubtedly be a little different in the beginning, it favors a much stronger emphasis on group thought & improvement over individual travels, which is more beneficial in the long run.

We're also in the process of rebuilding our Online Section into something we be proud of once again, so be sure to keep yourself (and your friends) posted. :)

[Apollo]

I'd rather remove the deck discussion and keep the deck forum, but we'll see how it goes

[Ex-Creations]

Apollo, on 10 January 2012 - 05:30 PM, said:

I'd rather remove the deck discussion and keep the deck forum, but we'll see how it goes

I think this'll be better for the improvement of the forum, it'll encourage a centralized discussion which will encourage more posts and it focuses the forum towards the more competitive tier decks.

[Apollo]

Ex-Creations, on 10 January 2012 - 06:35 PM, said:

I think this'll be better for the improvement of the forum, it'll encourage a centralized discussion which will encourage more posts and it focuses the forum towards the more competitive tier decks.

I get the reasoning behind it, I just don't think it will be a popular decision which could mean death of that section with the current base that we have.

There's also the issue of not all decks being able to be categorized. For example, what if Vargas wanted to post his new deck here like he did on DGZ. He'd have nowhere to post it, and it certainly doesn't fit under a current category. It's certainly a deck worth talking about, but under this system, it wouldn't get posted here. I don't want to cramp down on creativity in deck making.

I'm willing to see how it goes, this just wouldn't have been my choice

Edited by Apollo, 10 January 2012 - 06:44 PM.

[Ex-Creations]

True, I mean if it is truly a new deck-type. They could start a new thread with permission from a moderator.

Edited by Ex-Creations, 10 January 2012 - 06:52 PM.

[Chid0x]

so i want to discuss theories and gameplays of certain decks.
WHERE DO I PUT IT ? p.p

Get rid of deck discussion/decktypes or whatever was implemented not long ago.


Yu-Gi-Oh! General Discussion

• Single Card Discussion---delete. If people want to discuss a card casually, do it in general discussion. If competitive go under gamepla/theory.
• Yu-Gi-Oh! Products--lol delete--this can essentially go under general discussion. It does not need to be a subforum as only 1-2 threads will be active at a time.

Yu-Gi-Oh! Gameplay & Theory

• Yu-Gi-Oh! Deck Discussion---delete. this is an all around fail subforum. People need to ask permission to make threads and blah blah
• Yu-Gi-Oh! Events/Reports --good

Yu-Gi-Oh! Mechanics & Rulings

• ok

The game of yugioh is not that complex, you either are competitive or your not. You don't need to have a bunch of subforums to have things more organize since no one is going to use those subforums anyways/


edit: used to hitting reply and not editing. merge posts/w/e

[Delx]

there's no reason to get rid of deck garage ._.

[shadowball2007]

so people are pretty much gone be posting the same decks minus 1 or 2 cards. Sounds really boring but like the rest of the ideas

[Delx]

no, it means that weird decks don't get posted. they already don't get much traffic, but i like reading up on weird decks because i like weird decks sometimes, even if it doesn't contribute to the competitiveness of the site, a deck garage is still interesting for me to read.

on the competitive side of things, charlie would have had to ask permission to make a thread on his lancer deck instead of just posting it because it's not established meta. and he gets like 5th at his regional with it.

i don't read enough of ycs coverage or whatever to see the new stuff either, so all i get exposure to is stuff i read on etc. which isn't that much. no reason to reduce the coverage of the game.

i understand that the game is very limited in competitive scope, but the nature of the game is volatile and still expansive enough to warrant a deck garage.

Edited by Delx, 10 January 2012 - 08:21 PM.

[Dr. Clock]

The lack of a deck Garage puts down new or returning players to either the forum or the game itself, because they lack the ability to post their decks and have other members give their input on the decks, The Deck Discussion does not really help people returning or entering the game because it is more of a "competitive" look to it. At the very least new and inexperienced players might not understand the topics or terms used by someone who plays regularly. Having only discussion and no Garage seems more unwelcoming and closed off. Since we are trying to improve the Forum and try to keep it alive why lessen peoples ability to try to get help?

[Nomad]

Dr. Clock, on 10 January 2012 - 08:41 PM, said:

The lack of a deck Garage puts down new or returning players to either the forum or the game itself, because they lack the ability to post their decks and have other members give their input on the decks, The Deck Discussion does not really help people returning or entering the game because it is more of a "competitive" look to it. At the very least new and inexperienced players might not understand the topics or terms used by someone who plays regularly. Having only discussion and no Garage seems more unwelcoming and closed off. Since we are trying to improve the Forum and try to keep it alive why lessen peoples ability to try to get help?

I get where you're coming from (we knew people would react this way at first), but we're really not lessening anyone's ability to learn.

Instead, what we're doing is discouraging people from practicing an ineffective way of trying to both teach & learn, which was largely the act of posting a deck & expecting the world to turn/giving fixes that can't possibly tell or teach the entire store. I've been there plenty of times, and while there're obviously exceptions to our approach, the time & effort placed into posting or replying to a single deck thread could just as easily be put toward a group discussion that's helping more than just person grow.

For example, I was looking into trying Lightsworn out again because sacky as it is, I've always liked the concept. It's not something I normally do or have done in a while, so I looked to ETC for assistance. I made a few posts in our Lightsworn discussion thread, part of which being my deck, and I ended up getting some good feedback. Anyone else who came into that centralized topic essentially got the same cookies, and wouldn't need to start fresh.

However, if I'd had just posted this in the deck garage, I might have gotten a reply or two (mainly because they recognized my username), and maybe I'd have gotten the same help. The thing is though, it'd have just been one deck out of a sea of comparable ones, and that's true even now that Lightsworn isn't a popular deck. Also, the nature of deck garages means that they not only carry a very disconnected mentality, but also a short term one too.

Then when we get into extremes, consider this. Lightsworn is sort of in the middle because it's defined but not popular, but what about Rabbit decks? They're on top right now, and as such, the main differences that we'll see have to do with techs & meta calls. What better place to wrap our heads around this than in a deck discussion thread, and what better place to give our 2 cents than in there?

Likewise, I think it's the same for the other end of the spectrum. For example, lets take the deck I have with Geartown & Magical Hats. From this description, you can probably guess 3 cards (hats, geartown, & the big monster that geartown summons), but you don't know anything else, and unless you've ran it before, you probably won't have a clue where to begin helping me. However, you might be interested in my thought process, and you might be interested in where I believe something like this can go. If I care enough to bring it to the forum, I won't post a decklist & leave. Instead, I'll start a theory, general, or single card topic (depending on the direction I hope to take), and I'll bring up some of the key points. In doing so, I'll have already done much more than I'd have in the deck garage, and this is even before we consider the feedback that comes from others, and how many more people will take it in than had it been just a finished deck been posted.

Getting back to the elements of less versed players, I believe this is equally the case for newer or returning players because they won't know where to start. They'll likely wanna learn the decktype itself & why people think its worth looking into, not simply one person's choice of it. They might not even have cards for it yet, making this increasingly important.

[Delx]

Nomad, on 10 January 2012 - 09:05 PM, said:

but also a short term one too.

this is the nature of yugioh though. until you find a good deck that "fits" you, you'll be playing short term ideas anyway. and the game moves on so fast that even with a "good fit" the deck will probably become obsolete in quick time.

i'll offer a suggestion; make the deck garage a subforum of deck discussion. this makes the deck discussion seem more important to the forum than the deck garage, which is what you want.

if a new member comes into deck discussion about to post their lightsworn deck, realizes that deck discussion is all about decktypes and that there is a large thread about lightsworn, hopefully they'll join that discussion on lightsworn instead of posting their own deck in deck garage. if they DO post in deck garage, then make a rule that yugioh mods have to lock the thread and direct them to the mainstream thread. so basically, make a rule saying that if you don't see your deck type in the deck discussion forum, only then can you create a thread in the deck garage.

yes, this might decrease the overall quality of the deck garage, but it'll still be a grounds for new/different stuff for those players who are looking into less-established decks even if they aren't competitive. the thing is, there are so many cards that things can be overlooked. i don't see the harm in having a garage.

[Negative One]

Not a fan.

[Dr. Clock]

I like the idea of having the deck garage in the deck discussion. IT helps people who are still working the kinks out in deck-types. My Gemini Deck I posted earlier today is an example. I am still working out the deck as a whole, but have a general Idea of where I want to go with it. With the garage I could chat with others to even make a deck and side-deck as well as gather more information or even help wording the description of the deck correctly so it could be a requested deck-type in the main discussion section. Making the Garage a kind of Stepping stone for discussion.

[shadowball2007]

it seems like a bad idea not to let people post crappy decks. It provides post an activity to some degree but just my opinion.

[Negative One]

There needs to be some "Other - Deck Discussion" thread open. Decks are going to sprout up every now and then without a pre-made thread, and some may actually be worth talking about.

[bherrell2]

There will be lots of threads put up soon, I would have posted some tonight but I wanted to clarify something with the rest of staff first.

Aside from that, what are everyone's thoughts on having an individual thread where everyone puts their decks? Potentially having the yugioh moderators go through and post a couple sentences or something on each deck each week and encourage members to post on a previous deck before they post another deck.

I think the main reasoning behind removing the deck garbage was because the amount of space it took up didn't equal the amount of good posts. The forum, and everyone as individuals got nothing out of them and we want to encourage the deck discussion section. However, the individual thread idea doesn't take up space and the amount of replies would probably be higher since all the decks are right there in one place. I doubt the yugioh mods would mind spending 20 minutes a week reviewing the week's decks with a tldr post. It is certainly a lot faster than clicking on individual threads, hitting the back/forward button and post button...

[Delx]

Sounds too cluttered. If you make deck garage a subforum of decktype discussion it's still out of the way.

[Tenken]

shadowball2007, on 10 January 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

so people are pretty much gone be posting the same decks minus 1 or 2 cards. Sounds really boring but like the rest of the ideas

Well the way the deck garage was

1. Meta decks were posted. No one looked at them because they are pretty standard minus a few cards. Some popular members got their decks checked.

2. Fun decks were posted. No one looked at them unless a popular member posted them. And even then it would probably become a 1 on 1 chat between friends.

[Love. Hate. Cherish.]

Tenken, on 10 January 2012 - 10:52 PM, said:

Well the way the deck garage was

1. Meta decks were posted. No one looked at them because they are pretty standard minus a few cards. Some popular members got their decks checked.

2. Fun decks were posted. No one looked at them unless a popular member posted them. And even then it would probably become a 1 on 1 chat between friends.

This.

The deck garage is flawed. Discussion threads encourage people to not repeat the same ideas but rather make progress in creating the best deck. People didn't want to use them, we want to essentially force them into using them.