8 replies to this topic

[4gotmyotherpw]

Ok, sooo.. I have 4 wind-ups on board, with a wind-up magician I have just summoned from my hand, therefore triggering Wind-Up Shark in my hand.

I'm asking, since Shark activates in hand, since magician will activate and special summon a monster from my deck, does shark remain in my hand? Or am I missing something?

[Love. Hate. Cherish.]

You're definitely missing something.

Magician (and Factory) both start a separate chain after the Wind-Up effect has resolved. So you will summon a monster which can Trigger Shark's effect as Chain link 1. It will resolve and special Shark. At this point Magician you could activate Magician if you did not have 5 monsters on the field and Magician would be chain link 1. But since you have 5 monsters you can't activate Magician's effect at all.

[4gotmyotherpw]

Wind-Up Shark's effect to special summon activates in hand, kind of the same way gallis does.. Doesn't it?

You declare you're activating wind-up shark's effect to special summon because you've just summoned a Wind-Up

[Nomad]

That it does. However, as the man in blue was saying, it'll play out like this...

You'll normal summon your 4th Wind-Up monster, and the summon will be sucessful. In response to the summon, you'll activate the trigger effect of Wind-Up Shark in the Hand. Since no other trigger effects had the correct timing before you started building this chain, you won't add any other trigger effects to it. At this point, priority will be passed to your opponent to continue the chain, and then they'll pass onto you. For the sake of simplicity, lets say that nothing else was added.

When you resolve the current chain, you'll do so by special summoning the Wind-Up Shark. Now, since the effect of Wind-Up Magician was triggered (which likely needed to see that the activation wasn't negated oppose to simply being placed into a chain), and since it can't miss the timing (aka, because of the "If" text), you'd normally have the option of starting a new chain with it. However, since you don't have an open monster zone, you can't.


... so yeah. It's not an issue of where the effect of Wind-Up Shark activates, but rather how the chains need to be set up. Also since this is bound to be asked, remember that since ti has a trigger effect activating in the hand, that multiple copies of it shouldn't be allowed to activate in the same chain the way normal trigger effects can just stack up. Alien Dog, Battle Fader, Voltanis, Gorz & Green Baboon come to mind as precedents, but there's probably more.

[4gotmyotherpw]

Ok so, how come Magician (or factory since they're almost identical) won't activate when shark activates it's effect in hand? They both only require a Wind-Up effect to activate, and shark activates in hand when a wind-up is normal/specialed. Sorry if I'm asking the same questions over and over, or not seeing it in the responses, because my understanding it goes like this:

monster monster monster magician (open zone)

Normal Magician--> Shark eff activates --> Magician eff activates... resolve backwards... right?

So magician would bring out a monster from the deck, and shark would be in limbo / still in my hand because he can't go anywhere.

The best part of shark is he activates twice, to trigger wind-up effects like factory and magician, this is why I'm trying to make sure I get this right.

[Magicknight94]

Magician's eff DOESN'T chain to the Wind-up's effect. It will activate AFTER the effect resolve. That's why if the activation of eff is negated (Divine Wrath for example), Magician's effect WON'T activate.

[4gotmyotherpw]

Magicknight94, on 08 February 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:

Magician's eff DOESN'T chain to the Wind-up's effect. It will activate AFTER the effect resolve. That's why if the activation of eff is negated (Divine Wrath for example), Magician's effect WON'T activate.

You're wrong, magician's eff WILL activate. Even if a wind-up is veilered, magician still activates.

[Nomad]

He's not wrong. You guys are just citing two different examples that do different things.

Divine Wrath negates an activation, so Wind-Up Magician won't see it. However when it comes to Effect Veiler, that'll only negate the effect, so the activation is still seen & taken account of by Wind-up Magician.

[Magicknight94]

4gotmyotherpw, on 09 February 2012 - 01:46 AM, said:

You're wrong, magician's eff WILL activate. Even if a wind-up is veilered, magician still activates.

Do you know the different between "negate the activation of effect" and "negate the effect". They are 2 diff things, just like Spell and Trap.

When an activation of eff is negated, by Divine Wrath, Dark Bribe, Debunk, that effect NEVER resolves, its chain link is erased, you never activate that effect (but conditions like "Once per turn", "The effect of "X" can only be used once per turn", "Once per duel" still apply).

If the effect is negated, by Skill Drain, Effect Veiler, Royal Decree, Royal Oppression, the resolution still happen, but it doesn't do anything (this is important for "missing the timing" issues. It is still treated as you activated that effect.