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Forbidden Lance, Naturia Beast, & Safe Zone


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#1 DJ_Marucho

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 12:21 PM

Forbidden lance:
Select 1 face-up monster on the field. Until the End Phase, it loses 800 ATK but is unaffected by the effects of other Spell/Trap Cards.

Safe zone:
Activate by selecting 1 face-up Attack Position monster. That monster cannot be targeted or destroyed by your opponent's card effects, or be destroyed by battle. It cannot attack your opponent directly. When this card is removed from the field, destroy that monster. When that monster is removed from the field, destroy this card.

if i summon naturia beast and atack my opponent directly and they chain safe zone and i chain forbidden lance.. what happens during that moment and after my end phase?
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#2 Nomad

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 06:10 PM

Link 1 - Safe Zone
Link 2 - Forbidden Lance


When this chain resolves, Forbidden Lance will be resolved first. Naturia Beast's ATK will be lowered by 800 (to 1400) and it will become unaffected by the effects of other spell/trap cards. Next, you'll resolve Safe Zone. At this point it won't do anything to Naturia Beast, as your monster isn't being affected by it.

Then when gameplay moves into the End Phase & when you cancel the Forbidden Lance effects, it makes the most sense to me for Safe Zone's effects to be applied from that point on as long as it continues targeting your Naturia Beast. I'm saying this because just like with Royal Decree coming & going while something's being targeted by Call of the Haunted, the targeting was never stopped or was otherwise broken, and that example even negates effects while Forbidden Lance only hides your monster from it.


Hope this makes sense, but if not/if you'd like more info, just let me know. :)

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#3 DJ_Marucho

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 02:06 PM

now in the same terms.. naturia beast with safe zone on it i negate a spell with effect and opponent chains their evolsar dolkka what happens then?
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#4 bherrell2

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 03:23 PM

Forbidden lance:
Select 1 face-up monster on the field. Until the End Phase, it loses 800 ATK but is unaffected by the effects of other Spell/Trap Cards.

Safe zone:
Activate by selecting 1 face-up Attack Position monster. That monster cannot be targeted or destroyed by your opponent's card effects, or be destroyed by battle. It cannot attack your opponent directly. When this card is removed from the field, destroy that monster. When that monster is removed from the field, destroy this card.

if i summon naturia beast and atack my opponent directly and they chain safe zone and i chain forbidden lance.. what happens during that moment and after my end phase?

this is aside from the actual question, but it would be useless to use your forbidden lance/flip safe zone.

it wont stop your naturia beast from attacking them directly, and negating the safe zone won't kill your naturia beast so.........
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#5 Nomad

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 10:31 PM

this is aside from the actual question, but it would be useless to use your forbidden lance/flip safe zone.

it wont stop your naturia beast from attacking them directly, and negating the safe zone won't kill your naturia beast so.........


Yeah, Safe Zone reads from the player controlling it (the trap card), meaning that the opponent of Safe Zone is the one who can't be attacked directly (regardless of who the opponent of the monster is).


now in the same terms.. naturia beast with safe zone on it i negate a spell with effect and opponent chains their evolsar dolkka what happens then?


Dolkka isn't targeting Naturia Beast, so its effect can legally be chained regardless of who controls what. Getting to how things will resolve, Dolkka will negate the activation of Naturia Beast's effect, and since Dolkka isn't controlled by the opponent of Safe Zone, Naturia Beast will still be destroyed afterwards.

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#6 Fallen

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 10:53 AM

So Safe Zone reattaches at the end phase? Does this also apply to Fiendish Chain and are you 100% sure Val?

#7 g1Nz0

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 01:07 PM

So Safe Zone reattaches at the end phase? Does this also apply to Fiendish Chain and are you 100% sure Val?

Yeah, I'm a little confused as well.

Say, Call of the Haunted Special Summons Gemini Elf. Later, a Trap Stun is activated; Call is no longer attached to said Elf. If a Heavy Storm is activated, Call goes to Grave Elf says sup.

Unless I'm missing something here....

Edited by g1Nz0, 18 May 2012 - 01:08 PM.

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#8 Fallen

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 02:03 PM

That's the impression I was under as well.

#9 DJ_Marucho

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 02:57 PM

so if i atack with beast and they chain safe zone.. i can still attack directly O.o?

lol leave it to me to ask all the hard and difficult questions haha

Edited by g1Nz0, 18 May 2012 - 04:30 PM.

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#10 Fallen

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 03:41 PM

so if i atack with beast and they chain safe zone.. i can still attack directly O.o?


This is correct. The reasoning behind this is because Safe Zone says the equipped monsters can not attack your opponent directly. If you control Safe Zone, regardless of what monster it is equipped to, that monster cannot attack the opponent of the controller of Safe Zone directly. Basically Safe Zone cannot stop your opponents monster from direct attacking you because you control Safe Zone.

#11 DJ_Marucho

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 03:49 PM

lol ... either way i won that duel... beat that inzecktar deck with noooo issue lol
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#12 Nomad

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 08:56 AM

Well about the reattaching thing, it's not even an issue of reattaching (as this would imply that Safe Zone ever stops targeting the monster which it doesn't), and we're talking about what happens once Forbidden Lance is no longer making the equipped monster temporally unaffected by the effects of Safe Zone (not what happens if Heavy Storm is played in the meantime). The monster is still being continuously targeted throughout (this is never stopped or otherwise broken), and since nothing is even being negated, I'd air on the side of Safe Zone to continue targeting & affecting the Naturia Beast after the fact.


Granted, you could make a case for Trap Stun & Safe Zone working differently (by citing the Ninjitsu Art of Decoy ruling/because it uses negation), but that ruling really doesn't make sense in the grand scheme of things, and is also opposed by ones involving Call of the Haunted & Xing Zhen Hu/the fact that targeting is still established here (as seen by Spirit Reaper's reactions with targeting stuff). Similarly, you could especially argue in favor of the Ninjitsu Art of Decoy ruling if Trap Stun is chained, as the effects of Ninjitsu Art of Decoy/Safe Zone are never being applied in the first place.

I just don't see the same arguments being present for Forbidden Lance's case (as nothing is being negated, especially since even the arguments toward negation causing continuous targeting effects to not reapply is rather thin in itself), and that's why I'd say that Safe Zone's effects would be applied after Forbidden Lance's cape of invisibility goes away in the End Phase in the absence of a ruling telling us to rule otherwise.





What sort of proof do we have? Outside of the few examples mentioned & trusting certain judgment that they were actually official at some point & still correct, not very much. Questions of this nature have been asked to official channels several times without ever getting a response (at least twice coming from me), and while I'll try again & won't discourage anyone from doing the same, I really wouldn't expect a reply to come soon, if even at all, judging how low on the priority list this stuff tends to be for the few people allowed to answer.

So yeah, this is pretty much gonna come down to what my opinion is on the question, and since my opinion won't determine how things are ruled, it might also be worth bringing up with whoever makes the calls in your area. Any new info/thoughts/etc are always welcome, though. :)

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#13 g1Nz0

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 06:38 PM

Ah, I see what you are saying now. It's all a case of wording. Admittedly, wording gets lost sometimes in the midst of trying to find an answer on the A.S.A.P.

Not being affected. Doesn't affect Safe Zone at all and this makes sense.

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#14 Vanilla Ice

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 01:26 PM

A quick question. My opponent has a Dolkka attached to Safe Zone. I control any GB and tries to activate its effect, just say Bestiari and my opponent detaches a material from Dolkka to negate its effect, I chain aWar Chariot to negate its effect and destroy it. Does Safe Zone also protect Dolkka from Counter traps?

#15 Nomad

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 04:59 PM

The counter trap in question doesn't target (I believe only Intercept & Negate Attack do, but neither of em negate activations so they're unique), so it could be activated just fine. War Chariot would still negate the activation, but since Safe Zone is there, Dolkka wouldn't be destroyed.

Like, unless there's something I'm missing here, that's how it should play out.

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#16 g1Nz0

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 09:10 PM

This is an interesting scenario.

If you find out any conflicting info, post it.

Edited by g1Nz0, 22 May 2012 - 09:10 PM.

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#17 Tsunayoshi

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 09:30 PM

Thought I'd put two cents in here, at least to confirm something that seems obvious.

Lance vs Field Spells like Umiiruka/Lemuria/ALO

Say I have a field with with Guaiba and dead Laggia. Opponent has Atlantean Marksman (1400 Original atk) and Umiiruka active.

Opponent attacks into the Guaiba, I flip Lance to target his monster in Battle Step. He'd lose his field boost of 500 atk + Lance's 800 reduction?

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#18 g1Nz0

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 10:23 PM

It's worth mentioning.

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#19 Sheik_the_Geek

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 09:31 PM

Well, Lance makes Catastor unaffected by Skill Drain so it can kill Obelisk. >_>

So in the field spell scenario, it should lose whatever boost it was getting from said field as well the 800 from Lance itself.
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#20 Tsunayoshi

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 06:01 AM

Well, Lance makes Catastor unaffected by Skill Drain so it can kill Obelisk. >_>

So in the field spell scenario, it should lose whatever boost it was getting from said field as well the 800 from Lance itself.


That was the assumption I made, though I'd still wanna be sure since Atlanteans and Mermails are being hyped to high heaven, and they will be using fields for level manipulation on their part.

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